Interesting debate between two smart guys About Redeveloping a Mall

Failed: Built in 1966 and closed after only 13 years, Harvey, Illinois's Dixie Square Mall became memorable for good reasons and bad
Failed: Built in 1966 and closed after only 13 years, Harvey, Illinois's Dixie Square Mall became memorable for good reasons and bad

yes, there is no government? no subsidized housing ? sarcasm intended.
People complain about stuff like Health Insurance and claim it is capitalism gone wrong.

In fact, one can hardly find anything more government regulated and dominated than Health Care and Health Insurance

(but land use err planning may be the one area!)

So Bill, I would assert that all destruction is not bad and in fact much is necessary and optimal

Take a bit look at the work of the Austrian School specifically Joseph Schumpeter albeit the concept of capitalist destruction goes back to Marx.


Surely there are better sources on this like the Hayek site,

but if you view destruction as simplistically bad, you are in line with Marx.

if you view it as necessary and good (as efficiency is just like cheap oil ?. aka good
you are in line with Schumpeter, Hayek, Laffer, Mundell and the Free Market Capitalists (and me)

of course Capitalism has flaws. But all the variants on the left side of the Left Right continuum have way more (with left being more government and right being less)

unfortunately, todays right is still left of center in the USA  and Europes right is left of Jan Schakowsky.


ps I do like this quote as there is no escape from globally competitive technological modernity ? perhaps we all race to the bottom in the end, but not getting their first is a bonus

The opening up of new markets and the organizational development from the craft shop and factory to such concerns as US Steel illustrate the process of industrial mutation that incessantly revolutionizes the economic structure from within, incessantly destroying the old one, incessantly creating a new one ... [The process] must be seen in its role in the perennial gale of creative destruction; it cannot be understood on the hypothesis that there is a perennial lull.

Joseph Schumpeter, Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy, 1942

Actually that is exactly what they did in Park Forest. Naturally the malls will go bankrupt. Capitalism at its destructive best!

RE: Dead Mall Syndrome: The Self-Reinforcing Death Spiral of Retail | Zero Hedge

not sure I agree unless the plan is to level a good chunk of the mall and build housing
of course, unprofitable housing will be mandated for a portion of the reclaim as it is the right thing to do and will guarantee failure for many reasons and there is no chance stores want trucks rolling into the congestion mayhem that is a retail mall (remote nodes are more affordable) unless it is for product sold/delivered at that location but the property does have location going for it however it also will require a bankruptcy to get that property into the right hands as its likely levered to the gills at a higher value

prognosis = catastrophe!


Good analysis. Repurposing abandoned commercial building is something planners have been doing for years. Malls have more going for them then you might think. They are extremely well located for the most part and on major transportation links. I can see several uses, not the least of which is housing and warehousing for e-commerce. I agree that mindless mass consumption by the middle class is a thing of the past. People will still eat out, still go to the movies and still buy things that they really need but they won't be buying them at the mall.

good analysis on Retail Evolution and CRE Death spiral


Interesting discussion. Can I put it on my blog - without names?


Of course. That was why I sent it to you. The debate is quite complex. My friend is brilliant but Capitalism is impossible without infrastructure and infrastructure without government is impossible.